Chamber and committees

:Perfect—thank you.

:Before Kevin comes in, I want to point out that I have made freedom of information requests of 160 public sector organisations. Many of them cannot even define sex; they collect data on gender. Some of them could not give me an answer on what actions they have taken on the nine protected characteristics. One of them even said, “What do you mean by action?” My point is that the Scottish Government and 160 public sector organisations are not collecting basic data on those different protected characteristics. How can you measure outcomes if you are not collecting the base data?

I have all the FOI responses and I am very happy to share them with you. You would be shocked to see that they have come back saying that they are not collecting the data on the nine protected characteristics. Many of them cannot even define the difference between sex and gender, and they do not know what an action is.

:I will move on. Maybe we can take the conversation offline. Would you meet with me so that I can share with you the evidence that demonstrates that the public sector organisations are not collecting that data? You can have all sorts of finders and reports, but you are not collecting the base data. If you meet with me, I will share that evidence with you.

Before I ask my main question, I want to ask the minister about the 40 traineeships that she mentioned. Those are definitely to be welcomed, so thank you for that. Will you require any of the trainees who have qualified to give back X number of years, so that, once they are qualified, they focus on legal aid rather than going into other types of law?

:Good morning. What steps will be taken to improve the availability of intersectional and disaggregated data, given the quite significant gaps identified by civil society organisations and the Scottish Human Rights Commission?

:At the start of this evidence session, you talked about the four priorities, and I noted that one of those key goals, which drive all of the actions, is delivering high-quality, sustainable public services. The fact is that data and its recording matter; you mentioned non-binary people and the gender equality index, but when we look at four of the nine protected characteristics under the Equality Act 2010—age, disability, sex and race—you might argue that the characteristics that people are most discriminated against on are age and disability.

There has been a decrease in even the most basic public services, such as loos, libraries and leisure centres. There is still a urinary leash; in fact, the number of local toilets and changing places has massively decreased, which is causing issues in rural areas. There has been a 16 per cent decrease in the number of libraries, which provide a safe space for people to go to where they can access information technology; they also provide warmth for people who need it during the day. The massive decrease in libraries was raised with the Cabinet Secretary for Constitution, External Affairs and Culture last week. Risk assessments for leisure centres are not taking place against the protected characteristics of age, disability, sex and even race. You are looking at and collecting data on things that are not protected characteristics under the Equality Act 2010. If you cannot get the base data, how can you build and create positive outcomes?

:To address the most basic point, there is a cross-party group on changing places, and very little progress has been made on the issue. I acknowledge that there is a fund, but the number of toilets and changing places is decreasing in local areas—there is only one in the north-east, in Dundee station, and there is not one on the rest of the line. It means that if you are a 75-year-old woman who has dementia, for example, you cannot leave your home, because nowhere has such facilities. The reality is that if you are stuck at Laurencekirk station, there is no loo.

The feedback is that there is a huge disconnect when it comes to basic intersectional data on protected characteristics, and if you overlay what the Scottish Human Rights Commission has shared with us—it is in our report—you can see that data is not being collected on age, disability, sex or race. If you overlay rurality on to that, you can see that there is a massive issue.

Do you recognise that the basic data is not being collected across Scotland on those four protected characteristics, and that if you overlay rurality, it is definitely not being collected?

:So, that is Government funded, and there might be some requirement that those people spend time on legal aid cases.

:My next question is on something that my colleague Paul McLennan touched on, which is longer-term legal aid reform. It is difficult to say, because this is for the next parliamentary session, but have you stressed the point that reform is long overdue and needs to be looked at quickly?

:When we had the debate on legal aid in the chamber, we discussed the issue of women fleeing domestic abuse and the recommendation that the financial thresholds be removed. On the Scottish Legal Aid Board—or SLAB, which is an unfortunate word—there was heavy criticism of it and the bureaucracy involved. Have you addressed that issue with SLAB since we raised it in our debate?