Chamber and committees

That was really helpful. I certainly acknowledge that the powers might well be needed, but the cabinet secretary should appreciate that we are interested in where the safeguards are. If I am to agree to the instrument today, I need to be satisfied that safeguards exist. Moreover, going back to a comment that you made to Jamie Greene, I am uncomfortable with extending the powers to next March, and the length of time that you are asking for might be reason enough for me to vote against the proposal. I accept a lot of what you have said, and you have told Jamie Greene that you would be prepared to bring the issue back to us before then, but if I am to support the instrument, I need to have that absolutely confirmed. I cannot vote to extend for six months what are quite wide-ranging powers, even with all the safeguards and caveats in place, without the matter being brought back to the committee before next March.

I agree with what has been said and will try not to repeat those points.

I would have been minded to support a motion to annul but I am content with what has been said. I note that the SSI includes the power to suspend purposeful activity and visitation rights and to detain prisoners in their cells if a health professional has said that there is cause for concern around coronavirus. I acknowledge that there are reasons to have those powers but I agree with Jamie Greene and Katy Clark that the committee needs to keep a watchful eye on the length of time for which the powers are in force and the consistency of governors’ decisions. As the cabinet secretary has indicated to the committee that he would be happy to return to the matter, I am content to do nothing other than to note the instrument.

My final question is for Colin Lancaster. The SSBA’s submission states:

“The current system of legal aid is not conducive to early resolution of cases. There are significant gaps in funding available at the early stages in the process and the system fails to adequately recognise the preparation and responsibility involved in negotiating early pleas.”

Do you agree with that statement? Could there be a better system, in which early payment was made to ensure that early pleas were made? After all, that is what we would want in any court system.

Thank you. When I first read about that, I did not like to think that there was any reason for the restriction of newspapers and reading materials, particularly for prisoners who are detained.

As I understand it, there are no time limits, although there are caveats to that. Are you certain that that complies with human rights law?

I am interested in the impact on the quality of justice, given what we have just heard. I would also like to hear from Colin Lancaster about the system and early pleas.

I will start with Ian Moir. We have heard about the number of practitioners who are leaving the profession, and you have outlined the issues around competing with recruitment to other places such as the Government, and the gap in pay. You also talked about the work-life balance of criminal legal aid solicitors. Can you say a bit more about that? Is it the primary reason why we are losing solicitors from legal aid defence?

I know that. I just want to know what your position is. If we remove the not proven verdict, there could be a majority of one, and you would not have any concerns about that.

I note from your submission that you oppose the removal of juries. You will have heard Sandy Brindley talk about another way—about having a judge with lay assessors—and about providing a video for juries to watch in advance, which Lady Dorrian proposed. Would any of those things work or make any difference to outcomes?

I was going to come on to that, but I might as well ask you now, as you are on the screen. What is your view on the complete removal of juries from cases of rape or attempted rape?

First, I will ask Sandy Brindley to go back to where she left off, on the jury majority issue. I want to be clear in my own mind that you would be comfortable with a majority of one if we remove the not proven verdict. I note what you say about a fully unanimous jury verdict being rare; I think that in England, a two-thirds majority is required. Are you comfortable that a conviction for rape or attempted rape in the High Court could be achieved with a majority of one?

Staying with the general background, I have a question for Dr Marsha Scott. Everyone seems to be painting a bleak picture. I have been following the issue closely, and I have written to the Lord Advocate.

I note the statistics that Moira Price used. It seems to me that violence against women throughout the United Kingdom, and probably globally, is getting worse. Marsha Scott talked about how the underlying issue is the need for women’s inequality to be resolved. I have been reading in the press about teenage girls of 13 and 14—and some boys, but particularly girls—being bullied to provide nude photographs of themselves.

I am tying all of that together in my own mind. Violence against women by men seems to me to be worse than it was when I first became a politician, in 1999. I follow the international trends. It is a depressing picture.

Marsha Scott, do you agree with that?