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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 25 March 2026
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Displaying 3612 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Scotland’s Colleges 2020

Meeting date: 23 September 2021

Richard Leonard

While you are giving evidence on that, will you also address the wider point that you make in your written submission about the importance of multiyear financial settlements to allow planning to take place in the sector?

Public Audit Committee

Scotland’s Colleges 2020

Meeting date: 23 September 2021

Richard Leonard

I thank everybody for being here.

Sharon Dowey will kick off with questions on the financial health and sustainability of the sector.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Richard Leonard

Yes, I think that that is so. You have mentioned on a number of occasions in this morning’s session the £1 billion announced over the summer, which is presumably a commitment by the Scottish Government to, at least for this parliamentary session, keep investing in mechanisms for closing the attainment gap. Is that additional money over and above the core funding for education delivered by local government?

Secondly—this has been a thread running through our conversations—this is not just about where things go wrong but where things go right. What sense do you get of a sharing of good practice—of things that work using this funding? There are clearly certain stipulations about what it can and cannot be spent on, which led to some very innovative ideas, especially in the early days of its introduction. Do you get a sense that there is collaboration and sharing of good practice and that if there is an additional £1 billion in the system it will be well spent, provide value for money and have the desired effect?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Richard Leonard

Tricia Meldrum, do you want to come in on the questions that Sharon Dowey put?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Richard Leonard

I will end with a couple of questions about the money. If I read it correctly, the report seems to conclude that while overall total national education spending on schools rose between 2013-14 and 2018-19 by 0.7 per cent in real terms, there was quite a bit of variation within that. One of the things that struck me was that the report concluded that in those councils that were targeted for attainment Scotland funding, there was quite a variation.

For example—keep me right if I am wrong on this—my understanding is that with the exception of Glasgow City Council all the attainment challenge councils saw a drop in education spending in that period if you exclude the attainment Scotland funding. I thought that the attainment Scotland funding was meant to be additional, to tackle a particular problem. Do you have any reflections or comments on that and do you have a view about the impact on councils in which there was a reduction in the budget for mainstream operational spending?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Richard Leonard

I will come back to that point in a minute, but I wanted to ask about something else that is covered in your report. It would have been very fresh at the time of the report and we now have some benefit of a slightly longer view of it. Money was set aside to help with the logistics of schools reopening at the start of the year. I think that there was £50 million additional funding allocated to help schools reopen safely. At the time, as I recall, councils said that it was insufficient to do what we need to do, but I think the Scottish Government said that it was sufficient. Have you had an opportunity to review that to see whether somebody was right and somebody was wrong?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Richard Leonard

The main purpose of this morning’s session is to look at the section 23 report that was brought out in March this year jointly by the Auditor General for Scotland and the Accounts Commission, which looked at improving outcomes for young people through school education.

I am delighted once again to welcome the Auditor General, who is here with us in person this morning. There are also three of his colleagues who worked on the report joining us via videolink: Antony Clark, interim director of performance audit and best value; Tricia Meldrum, senior audit manager; and Zoe McGuire, senior auditor in performance audit and best value. Welcome to all four of you. We have quite a number of questions to put this morning but, before we do that, Auditor General, could you give us a brief introductory statement?

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everybody to the third meeting of the Public Audit Committee in this session of Parliament. I begin by reminding everybody about Parliament’s rules on social distancing and also the requirement to wear face masks if you are moving around the room or entering or leaving the room.

Agenda item 1 is a decision on whether to take items 3 and 4 in private. Do members agree to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Richard Leonard

Thank you. I will bring Sharon Dowey back in, then, I think, Willie Coffey has a question on the area that Sharon Dowey will pursue.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Richard Leonard

Does Willie Coffey want to come in?