The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
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Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 18 February 2026
Liam Kerr
Welcome back. Our next agenda item is evidence taking from a series of witnesses on one of the committee’s priorities for the current session—namely, policing and mental health. By that, we mean how Police Scotland looks after vulnerable people in the community, including people who are in mental health crisis, and how it looks after its own officers and staff, including how it deals with the issue of police suicides. I refer members to paper 2.
Our first two witnesses are from the Scottish Government: Stephen Gallagher is director of mental health, and Dr Robby Steel is principal medical officer for mental health. You are both very welcome. We have up to 60 minutes for this session. I invite either Stephen Gallagher or Robby Steel to make a short opening statement.
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 18 February 2026
Liam Kerr
It certainly does, and I am grateful for that information, but I am not sure that it quite answers my question about when the police will be able to take a “right people in the right place” sort of approach. I know that colleagues are very interested in that issue, though, so there will be an opportunity to explore it.
I call Sharon Dowey, to be followed by Pauline McNeill.
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 18 February 2026
Liam Kerr
I look forward to doing that, Jamie.
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 18 February 2026
Liam Kerr
Thank you for that—and thank you, colleagues, for all your questions.
I have a couple of things to ask Stephen Gallagher. Does the Scottish Government believe that the NHS and the wider health system in Scotland have effective provision at the moment to deal with members of the community in mental health crisis?
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 18 February 2026
Liam Kerr
I love statistics. Carry on.
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 18 February 2026
Liam Kerr
It concerns all the spend and all the initiatives. What has the impact been on policing? Do you have any metrics that show me, for instance, that the police were spending X hours attending such incidents before that spend, and Y hours after that spend?
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 18 February 2026
Liam Kerr
It would be helpful if you would briefly explain it.
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 18 February 2026
Liam Kerr
I have a final question, to bring together some of the evidence that you have talked about, Mr Threadgold. It leads on from Mr Hepburn’s point. You said earlier in the session that these issues are not for the police and therefore they need to be passed on. In the previous session, Dr Steel told us that, “The NHS does not view it as an NHS issue”. That raises some questions. Where, in your view, is the blocker here? What is preventing the handing on? Who, therefore, has agency to make things better?
11:45
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 18 February 2026
Liam Kerr
Finally, we go to Fulton MacGregor, who joins us online.
Fulton, you are on.
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 18 February 2026
Liam Kerr
Minister, the fixed penalty is being raised from £40 to £70, and the thought behind that is that it will provide a deterrent. What evidence do you have that the £70 figure will provide the level of deterrent that the Parliament originally intended?